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Topic has 144 replies.
 06/02/2012, 6:39 PM
Bryangunnshairline  Not Ranked
Joined on 02/02/2010
up north
Posts 566
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
<BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/forums/pinkun/cs/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>Beauseant wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4"><P><BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/forums/pinkun/cs/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>Bryangunnshairline wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">I agree he should be used as an impact sub when we play another formation. But he is the main man pulling the strings in lamberts preferred formation. To say we have not played well of late as a diamond? Did u go Saturday??? (Can't I say that!? Ha ha) Another player lately who's at best in that formation is surman and he has been outstanding.</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE></P>
<P> </P>
<P>If you'd like to translate that back into English I'll try to answer your points<img src="/forums/pinkun/cs/emoticons/emotion-2.gif" alt="Big Smile [:D]" /></P>
<P> </P></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
 06/02/2012, 7:08 PM
GJP  Top 150 Posts
Joined on 19/01/2007
Posts 3,571
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
 bringbackandyhughes wrote:
GJP, who the hell are you to say that people who don't agree with your opinion have a lack of understanding of the game? You word is not gossip and it shows how blinkered and small minded you are that you have to resort to comments like that. Football is all about opinions and mine just happens to be that Pilks and Fox are more important to us than Wes currently. As I stated in my original message what Wes and the rest of the players have done in the last couple of years has been phenomenal. I believe he still a big part to play however I think he is best used as an impact sub. The more we prosper in this league and the longer the season goes on we lose the element of surprise and teams are closing Wes down more and more, forcing him on his right foot and exploiting the diamond formation. Sunderland was a prie example of this.

Alright, alright, don't get your knickers in a twist.

 

Football is also about learning. I like to take the view that whether you're playing, coaching or spectating that you should still try to better your abilities or knowledge - which often means listening to someone who knows better than you.

 

People say "football is all about opinions" but some are more valid and worthwhile than others. If someone said to you that Lionel Messi was rubbish at football then I'm pretty sure you'd think that person was totally clueless.

 

Now, I'm not saying you necessarily have to listen to me but I just really think you should take a moment and think to yourself  "Hang on a minute, Paul Lambert, a brilliant manager, is picking Wes Hoolahan for the vast majority of games we play, just as he has done since he's been incharge. Perhaps there's a reason for that, perhaps he knows a bit better than I and Wes brings more to the table than I've given him credit for".

 

Oh, and if Howson comes in and Wes ends up playing second fiddle to him then I will be hold my hands up and say I got it wrong.

 

 


 06/02/2012, 7:44 PM
bringbackandyhughes  Not Ranked
Joined on 20/12/2011
Posts 96
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
Your arrogance astounds me, unfortunately your intelligence does not.
So people should listen to people who have greater knowledge? well I'm afraid in that case your argument is flawed as Giovanni Trapattoni, who has achieved far more the Lambert, does not rate Hoolahan and as a result does not pick him for Ireland, perhaps you should bow to his greater knowledge as I'm sure even PL would admit that Trap has a greater knowledge as a manager given the career he has had.

You also don't know (and nor do I) whether in fact if Lambert had not picked Hoolahan so often we might have gained even more points than we have achieved and neither of us will ever be able to prove this either way hence why it is all down to opinions. As i have stated all along my personal opinion is that Wes, despite being a fantastic player for us in our reincarnation as a proud football club over the last few years, would best serve us as an impact sub going forward.

Please also realise this not to say I don't rate Wes as I do and some of the skills he has are only matched by the very best players in the premier league however he does also have weak points and limitations.


Huuuuuughes!
 06/02/2012, 7:49 PM
CDMullins  Top 500 Posts
Joined on 09/08/2008
Posts 2,008
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
 GJP wrote:
 bringbackandyhughes wrote:
GJP, who the hell are you to say that people who don't agree with your opinion have a lack of understanding of the game? You word is not gossip and it shows how blinkered and small minded you are that you have to resort to comments like that. Football is all about opinions and mine just happens to be that Pilks and Fox are more important to us than Wes currently. As I stated in my original message what Wes and the rest of the players have done in the last couple of years has been phenomenal. I believe he still a big part to play however I think he is best used as an impact sub. The more we prosper in this league and the longer the season goes on we lose the element of surprise and teams are closing Wes down more and more, forcing him on his right foot and exploiting the diamond formation. Sunderland was a prie example of this.

Alright, alright, don't get your knickers in a twist.

 

Football is also about learning. I like to take the view that whether you're playing, coaching or spectating that you should still try to better your abilities or knowledge - which often means listening to someone who knows better than you.

 

People say "football is all about opinions" but some are more valid and worthwhile than others. If someone said to you that Lionel Messi was rubbish at football then I'm pretty sure you'd think that person was totally clueless.

 

Now, I'm not saying you necessarily have to listen to me but I just really think you should take a moment and think to yourself  "Hang on a minute, Paul Lambert, a brilliant manager, is picking Wes Hoolahan for the vast majority of games we play, just as he has done since he's been incharge. Perhaps there's a reason for that, perhaps he knows a bit better than I and Wes brings more to the table than I've given him credit for".

 

Oh, and if Howson comes in and Wes ends up playing second fiddle to him then I will be hold my hands up and say I got it wrong.

 

 

 

So whats your excuse for Trappatoni not picking him? And instead selecting  Keith Andrews, Keith Fahy, Stephen Hunt?

 

If he was as good as this board made out, why when we were relegated to L1 didnt any Championship side want him, Why when he was 'that good' in League One didnt any Championship side want him, Why when he was 'that good' in the Championship didnt any Premier League side want him and now he is 'that good' in the Premier League, cant he still even make the squad for ROI.

 

Paul Lambert didnt buy Wes, he was here when he came. He has had a limited budget, now we have a little cash I feel Wes will be replaced.

 

Lambert as got the best out of him, but for every piece of magic he produces, there are lots of bad play, IMO.

 

Its a shame, cause football brian wise he is very clever, infact at times too clever, but he hasnt been blessed with the physical attributes needed to be a outstanding Premier League player.

 

I always said, if he didnt play for City, who would he play for, I certainally dont think it would be a Premier League side, maybe someone like Middlesborough, Coventry or Leeds.

 


 06/02/2012, 8:49 PM
johnnygavinscoresagain  Not Ranked
Joined on 21/01/2012
Posts 8
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
 CDMullins wrote:

So whats your excuse for Trappatoni not picking him? And instead selecting  Keith Andrews, Keith Fahy, Stephen Hunt?

If he was as good as this board made out, why when we were relegated to L1 didnt any Championship side want him, Why when he was 'that good' in League One didnt any Championship side want him, Why when he was 'that good' in the Championship didnt any Premier League side want him and now he is 'that good' in the Premier League, cant he still even make the squad for ROI.

Paul Lambert didnt buy Wes, he was here when he came. He has had a limited budget, now we have a little cash I feel Wes will be replaced.

Lambert as got the best out of him, but for every piece of magic he produces, there are lots of bad play, IMO.

Its a shame, cause football brian wise he is very clever, infact at times too clever, but he hasnt been blessed with the physical attributes needed to be a outstanding Premier League player.

I always said, if he didnt play for City, who would he play for, I certainally dont think it would be a Premier League side, maybe someone like Middlesborough, Coventry or Leeds.

Quite simply, Trappatoni has a system and Wes doesn't fit in it. No shame in that. Football is all about opinions, even at managerial level Stick out tongue [:P]


 06/02/2012, 8:52 PM
CDMullins  Top 500 Posts
Joined on 09/08/2008
Posts 2,008
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
 johnnygavinscoresagain wrote:
 CDMullins wrote:

So whats your excuse for Trappatoni not picking him? And instead selecting  Keith Andrews, Keith Fahy, Stephen Hunt?

If he was as good as this board made out, why when we were relegated to L1 didnt any Championship side want him, Why when he was 'that good' in League One didnt any Championship side want him, Why when he was 'that good' in the Championship didnt any Premier League side want him and now he is 'that good' in the Premier League, cant he still even make the squad for ROI.

Paul Lambert didnt buy Wes, he was here when he came. He has had a limited budget, now we have a little cash I feel Wes will be replaced.

Lambert as got the best out of him, but for every piece of magic he produces, there are lots of bad play, IMO.

Its a shame, cause football brian wise he is very clever, infact at times too clever, but he hasnt been blessed with the physical attributes needed to be a outstanding Premier League player.

I always said, if he didnt play for City, who would he play for, I certainally dont think it would be a Premier League side, maybe someone like Middlesborough, Coventry or Leeds.

Quite simply, Trappatoni has a system and Wes doesn't fit in it. No shame in that. Football is all about opinions, even at managerial level Stick out tongue [:P]

 

And the previous ROI managers?

 

Surley Wes is that good that they should fit a system around him?


 06/02/2012, 9:06 PM
Herman   Top 50 Posts
Joined on 08/03/2008
Anywhere but here.
Posts 6,102
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
Maybe they should have thought about it.They might have qualified for things a bit more oftenWink [;)]
http://youtu.be/1-0Cfpvr7fY
 06/02/2012, 9:09 PM
johnnygavinscoresagain  Not Ranked
Joined on 21/01/2012
Posts 8
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
 CDMullins wrote:

And the previous ROI managers?

Surley Wes is that good that they should fit a system around him?

Who, Steve Staunton?! Call me gaffer...

Yup, very good Big Smile [:D]

I saw young Wessi in 2004 in the Champions League qualifiers for Shelbourne against a very tidy Deportivo La Coruna side at Landsdowne Road. He played against Valeron, Duscher and Sergio that night. IMO Wes was easily the best midfielder on view mate.


 06/02/2012, 9:20 PM
Itsaboutskillnotsize  Not Ranked
Joined on 14/07/2011
Posts 2
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
I have read this debate with great interest and I agree football is all about opinions.Wessi is simply our best player (in my opinion) and certainly our most creative.
But like I said football is all about opinions..me personally I love to see football played the 'right' way ie; pass, pass and when you can shoot pass again. I appreciate not all people agree with this and I'm sure Brendan Rogers coaching sessions are different to Tony Pulis' but they are both having success with different methods. But CD Mullins to claim Wessi isn't blessed with the physical attributes to be an outstanding Premiership player is frankly stupid and I would like to know whether you think David Silva will ever make it?
 06/02/2012, 9:57 PM
Tim Dawson  Not Ranked
Joined on 15/11/2005
Posts 425
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
Spot on !!!!
 06/02/2012, 10:09 PM
CDMullins  Top 500 Posts
Joined on 09/08/2008
Posts 2,008
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
 Itsaboutskillnotsize wrote:
I have read this debate with great interest and I agree football is all about opinions.Wessi is simply our best player (in my opinion) and certainly our most creative. But like I said football is all about opinions..me personally I love to see football played the 'right' way ie; pass, pass and when you can shoot pass again. I appreciate not all people agree with this and I'm sure Brendan Rogers coaching sessions are different to Tony Pulis' but they are both having success with different methods. But CD Mullins to claim Wessi isn't blessed with the physical attributes to be an outstanding Premiership player is frankly stupid and I would like to know whether you think David Silva will ever make it?

 

Silva is quicker with the ball and for his size, strong as an Ox.

 

Oh why Oh why, did Man City spend £30 Mill on Silva when they could have had Wes for much less than that.

 

If you really are comparing Wes to Silva, and such comments like 'we only play well when Wes does' then why isnt he this world known star?


 06/02/2012, 10:43 PM
Itsaboutskillnotsize  Not Ranked
Joined on 14/07/2011
Posts 2
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
Of course Silva is many times the player Wessi is, but his physical attributes are not dissimilar. Leon Britton is another, it's ludicrous when people mention Wes' size...he's hard to knock off the ball, works his nuts off and is our most creative force and yes we do play better when Wes does.But if people prefer to watch 6' workhorses thats their call..just that I like to watch Wessi cos he's gifted and we should be grateful we've got him.
 06/02/2012, 10:59 PM
GJP  Top 150 Posts
Joined on 19/01/2007
Posts 3,571
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
 bringbackandyhughes wrote:
Your arrogance astounds me, unfortunately your intelligence does not.

 

So people should listen to people who have greater knowledge? well I'm afraid in that case your argument is flawed as Giovanni Trapattoni, who has achieved far more the Lambert, does not rate Hoolahan and as a result does not pick him for Ireland, perhaps you should bow to his greater knowledge as I'm sure even PL would admit that Trap has a greater knowledge as a manager given the career he has had. You also don't know (and nor do I) whether in fact if Lambert had not picked Hoolahan so often we might have gained even more points than we have achieved and neither of us will ever be able to prove this either way hence why it is all down to opinions. As i have stated all along my personal opinion is that Wes, despite being a fantastic player for us in our reincarnation as a proud football club over the last few years, would best serve us as an impact sub going forward. Please also realise this not to say I don't rate Wes as I do and some of the skills he has are only matched by the very best players in the premier league however he does also have weak points and limitations.

My arrogance? I'm not the one who seems to think they know better than Paul Lambert.

 

As for intelligence...well I gave you the chance to save yourself, have a think about what you were saying but you chose not to take it. Says more about your intelligence than mine.

 

Five transfer windows have come and gone since Lambert arrived and yet Wes has remained a regular fixture in the team. Again, should tell it's own story.

 

But yes, this is all getting a bit silly now, a bit unnecessary. And I do appreciate you're not totally writing Wes off as a player. So I guess the sensible thing to do would be to wait and see what actually happens in the future. As I mentioned before, if Howson comes in and puts Wes out of the team I will do the decent thing and say I got it wrong.


 07/02/2012, 2:34 AM
Bill Car  Not Ranked
Joined on 06/08/2011
Posts 36
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
Before the season started I thought Rudy was too inconsistent along with Wes, Whitbread was to slow and Surman to lightweight for the diamond. I’m glad I don’t pick the team.

I think it shows how good a manager we have that after the Sunderland game he went with the most creative team we could put out after previously being outmuscled in the Sunderland game.

Sunderland is at present the form team of the premiership. When he managed Celtic he would often employ Sutton in a role which would cut out the out ball to the defensive midfielder, effectively stopping them tick. With the absence of Fox and Johnson having such a poor game our only out ball (Wes) was easy to nullify, which in turn, stopped us performing. This isn’t a reflection on Wes, just a manager who has got his tactics spot on.

I really thought we were lacking width in the Sunderland game but it just shows you how good Lambert is, a change of personnel that improved our possession and long story short didn’t drop Wes but made sure our ball retention improved in other areas giving Wes more space to impact the game was telling.

 07/02/2012, 7:05 AM
Chrisr  Not Ranked
Joined on 13/11/2007
Posts 647
Re: Anyone admitting Wes isn't upto it....
Got to say I sometimes wonder if I go to the same games as other people.

Now, I am no tactical genuis but having watched Norwich since the early 80's there are a few players I can recall that I couldn't wait to see every week because of the way they played football. Fox, Crook, Bellamy, Eadie, Coney, Huckerby and in this team, Wes.*

I my humble the reason he is percieved to give the ball away too often (Saturday's pass completion rate withstanding) is that the game flows through him. We look to him to do something with the ball and he is one of the few players able to create an opening from nothing, yes he gives it away but that's because he has the damn thing more than the rest of them.

* one of these isn't true.

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